In hindsight, I've often wondered about some of the statements made while I worked with her. She's been in the "biz" a long time, freelances for Harper Collins on occasion..., so I just assumed (most of the time) this was her trying to grow me a thick skin. Having said that, I no longer work with her. Thank you very much for the support - and the hugs! 🙂

That kind of beta reader is entirely useless. Get rid of them. To use a Heather phrase: Pronto!

I have a feeling that knowing when you're "done" with the work is something that comes with increased awareness of oneself as a writer. As Harry Connick, Jr., said to a contestant on American Idol last night, "Some things about oneself as a singer (in this case writer) take time to discover." For me, it's a very specific feeling, even though I can't describe it, exactly. The main feeling is no longer being attached to anything I've put down on the page. So, if someone says my heroine should be feeling X, then either the person is right and I’ve missed that out altogether, or they have a different character in mind from mine, and I don’t have to do anything further with their comment. I mean, that’s a little exaggerated because there’s often some kind of nuance in every comment. The reader, if you trust them, has picked up on something. But what they’ve picked up on may be for the wrong reasons. That’s why it is so important to have implicit as well as explicit trust in your beta readers. And to have readers who have gone farther than you.

At the point I know I’m “done,” I also know, when I hear or read it, which feedback is what the work needs and which it does not. If that sounds arrogant, I’m sorry, I don’t mean it to. But I do believe, if you are going to be a really good writer, even a great writer, this something very important to know about oneself and one’s work, which, at this moment, are inseparable. Later on, they are. It’s about as close to what I meant when I said in my earlier comment about being objective about my work.

At this point, the people I trust can nitpick right down to specific words, and either what they say will ring true or I will feel, "No, the word or phrase I've chosen does what I want it to.” And that will be for a variety of reasons--not least of which will be the cadence, rhythm, and look of the sentence, as a whole. How those words visually, spatially, rhythmically and interpretively interact with other words in the sentences that surround them, how a specific word feels, looks, sounds, and "weighs" between the words on either side of it. And so on. A large part of writing for me has far less to do with how to plot something than it does the art of writing itself. Plot (as revealed through the characters) is important only as a device that serves the writing; in order to convey to a reader, through words, certain universal truths, conceits, and entertainments they would not extract from any other art or form of communication.

I do know what you mean, though about "thinking" something is on a page when it is not. That is important feedback, when someone tells us that. And that's what I call the "writer has not yet put herself or her vision on the page," I literally tell that to the writer. Rather than telling them, “Your heroine should be feeling X." I tell them, "I have a feeling you know something about this character that you haven't yet put on the page, because it's missing--right here." And 99% of the time my instinct is correct. The writer knows exactly what that missing thing is, better than anything I could come up with.

I find that by asking the writer certain questions, I discover that what's missing for me in the ms is usually absent in the ms because the writer knows somewhere inside her what she wants to do but hasn't yet figured out how to put it onto the page. As often as not, the solution does not lie in simply making whatever is missing "obvious," i.e., telling the reader what the character is feeling at that moment (or whatever the missing thing is), but in something else altogether more organic and subtle and, if I may dare to say it, mind blowing.

Leaving our egos at the door is tough, but I wish you luck with your first series of feedback. 🙂

Eric, this piece here I wanted to shout "yes" to that you said:

"Most of the time, the criticisms and complaints from beta readers are things I expected subconsciously. I’m rarely surprised but I need that second and third opinion to smack me in the face sometimes."

Happens to me all the time.

Donna Eve, I'm a little appalled by that comment from the editor. I'm a freelance editor myself and I would never speak to a client that way. It's one thing to be honest and another to be hurtful and shaming. I hope you've taken your work elsewhere! ((hugs))

Marcy, it sounds like you need some new critique partners!! Are you a member of WFWA? They hooked me up with a fantastic group of critters. Just sayin', no need to keep hanging out with the meanies who aren't helping you improve your story!

Maybe I shouldn't have read it right then, but I did. There was nothing to salvage from that work - at all. She did NOT the story as it stood. One sentence was a real scorcher. "You better wise up to the kind of submissions publishing houses are getting these days if you ever want to be published."

I immediately transformed from bright hopeful writer to self-deprecating sniveler. The family arrived and EVERYONE said, "What's wrong? Are you sick? You look like you've been crying." Well. Dinner went on, and it actually helped to have the house full. Besides, the two Moms were there, so I definitely had soft shoulders where I could lay my pitiful self-deprecating sniveling little head, and tell them how much my writing sucked.

Anyway, I always feel better after time has passed and at some point, I go from that sad little Sniveler to Yoda, usually skipping super-hero and infidel. 🙂

Oh Marcy, that's the worst! And it's a critter you need to cut out of your life...
No help there.