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	Comments on: The True Roles of Protagonists and Antagonists In Your Story	</title>
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		<title>
		By: lesedgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-110720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lesedgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2016 13:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-110720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Steve, to further answer your question, even though I&#039;m not familiar with the story, I may be able to help you figure out who the antagonist is. First, what&#039;s the protagonist&#039;s story problem? Once you know that, then the next step is to see whose goal is directly opposed to his in resolving that problem. That will be the antagonist. Hope that helps!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, to further answer your question, even though I'm not familiar with the story, I may be able to help you figure out who the antagonist is. First, what's the protagonist's story problem? Once you know that, then the next step is to see whose goal is directly opposed to his in resolving that problem. That will be the antagonist. Hope that helps!</p>
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		<title>
		By: lesedgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-110714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lesedgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2016 12:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-110714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Steve, Unfortunately, I&#039;m not familiar with the novel High Fidelity. A couple of things that you said I can reply to. For starters, you say &quot;I know Rob is the main character and the protagonist. This seems redundant to me. The protagonist BETTER be the main character. Who else would it be? I&#039;ve never understood why we even need a term like &quot;main character.&quot; The second thing is I don&#039;t see how the protagonist can also be the antagonist, unless you&#039;re thinking of one of those &quot;man vs himself&quot; supposed plots, which personally I can&#039;t buy. That just sounds like one of those &quot;boring guys contemplating his navel&quot; kind of things where a narrator performs mental masturbation on the page. I don&#039;t know if the book you named is something like that, but if it is, I guess I just wouldn&#039;t pay much attention to it. Everything that gets published isn&#039;t good and certainly not always a good model for writers. I wish I knew the story so I could answer you better, but it&#039;s just not one I&#039;ve read, alas.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve, Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the novel High Fidelity. A couple of things that you said I can reply to. For starters, you say "I know Rob is the main character and the protagonist. This seems redundant to me. The protagonist BETTER be the main character. Who else would it be? I've never understood why we even need a term like "main character." The second thing is I don't see how the protagonist can also be the antagonist, unless you're thinking of one of those "man vs himself" supposed plots, which personally I can't buy. That just sounds like one of those "boring guys contemplating his navel" kind of things where a narrator performs mental masturbation on the page. I don't know if the book you named is something like that, but if it is, I guess I just wouldn't pay much attention to it. Everything that gets published isn't good and certainly not always a good model for writers. I wish I knew the story so I could answer you better, but it's just not one I've read, alas.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Goodman		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-110690</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Goodman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2016 04:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-110690</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m getting confused about the idea of a protagonist and antagonist in a story like High Fidelity.  I know Rob is the main character and the protagonist.  But who&#039;s the antagonist and why?  I&#039;ve read that he is also the antagonist, but I don&#039;t think so and I also read that it&#039;s not a very strong plot if you make the protagonist also the antagonist.  
If you can help me figure this out that would be appreciated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm getting confused about the idea of a protagonist and antagonist in a story like High Fidelity.  I know Rob is the main character and the protagonist.  But who's the antagonist and why?  I've read that he is also the antagonist, but I don't think so and I also read that it's not a very strong plot if you make the protagonist also the antagonist.<br />
If you can help me figure this out that would be appreciated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Les Edgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Les Edgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96295&quot;&gt;Lisa Ciarfella&lt;/a&gt;.

Bouchercon was a total blast! I&#039;m back and exhausted. Got up this ayem to over 600 emails... Oy vey!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96295">Lisa Ciarfella</a>.</p>
<p>Bouchercon was a total blast! I'm back and exhausted. Got up this ayem to over 600 emails... Oy vey!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lisa Ciarfella		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisa Ciarfella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2015 22:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey Les,
such a great post here. Especially like your ode to the &quot; Jack London school of writing–have experiences; weave them into stories.&quot; 
And you&#039;re right about Hal. He was a super worthy antagonist!
Hope Bouchercon is fun!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Les,<br />
such a great post here. Especially like your ode to the " Jack London school of writing–have experiences; weave them into stories."<br />
And you're right about Hal. He was a super worthy antagonist!<br />
Hope Bouchercon is fun!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny Hansen		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny Hansen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96172&quot;&gt;Les Edgerton&lt;/a&gt;.

Have fun at Boucheron! Drop in when it&#039;s over and give us the scoop, will you?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96172">Les Edgerton</a>.</p>
<p>Have fun at Boucheron! Drop in when it's over and give us the scoop, will you?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Les Edgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Les Edgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 23:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96163&quot;&gt;jmcgarryxx&lt;/a&gt;.

Sorry! Had to add another thought. Movies are often a poor model for literature also due to the audience. Studio movies (which are usually the ones we see at the Cineplex) are not only intended for teenaged boys in the main, they are also influenced heavily by foreign sales. It&#039;s the foreign sales which allow most movies to be even made. Most studios get their funding up front by selling foreign rights and because of language and custom barriers, three things are needed to sell those rights. Namely, the things all cultures and languages can easily understand--overt sex, overt physical action (fights, knifings, shootings, bombings, et al... and, most important of all... helicopters... Those are the forces at play predominantly with film, at least with studio films. Hate to kind of cut and run, but need to go to bed--am leaving early in the ayem for North Carolina for Bouchercon! Hope you&#039;ll forgive me!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96163">jmcgarryxx</a>.</p>
<p>Sorry! Had to add another thought. Movies are often a poor model for literature also due to the audience. Studio movies (which are usually the ones we see at the Cineplex) are not only intended for teenaged boys in the main, they are also influenced heavily by foreign sales. It's the foreign sales which allow most movies to be even made. Most studios get their funding up front by selling foreign rights and because of language and custom barriers, three things are needed to sell those rights. Namely, the things all cultures and languages can easily understand--overt sex, overt physical action (fights, knifings, shootings, bombings, et al... and, most important of all... helicopters... Those are the forces at play predominantly with film, at least with studio films. Hate to kind of cut and run, but need to go to bed--am leaving early in the ayem for North Carolina for Bouchercon! Hope you'll forgive me!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Les Edgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96166</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Les Edgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 23:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96166</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96163&quot;&gt;jmcgarryxx&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Jmcgarryxx! That&#039;s the view of a narrow type of story and one of usually slight substance. The &quot;daydream&quot; kind of story. There are two kinds of stories--the daydream and the nightdream. (Jungian). The daydream story is a relatively shallow kind of storytelling. Basic form is &quot;young man goes to beach to see girl, bullies show up and depant him and bury him in sand, humiliating him in front of fair maiden. Goes back home, pumps iron, learns martial art, comes back and whips bullies.&quot; It&#039;s a trite kind of story and usually appears in soon-forgotten tales. (Not always, but usually) It works at times in film for a lot of reasons, mostly having to do with the production values--characters thirty-feet tall, FX effects, music, etc. The daydream (not nightmare, although it can be) story, is one that goes much, much deeper. Not enough room to fully describe it here, but a much more complex kind of tale that delves much, much deeper into the psychology of humans and doesn&#039;t depend upon cheap emotions to &quot;carry the day.&quot; It depends on reaching real emotion in the reader and not surface ones. A good analogy is music. Any musician knows that they can play some syrupy tune like &quot;Wind Beneath Her Feet&quot; (or whatever it&#039;s called) at a wedding, and tears will flow. Emotion, cheaply-wrought and easily won. However, such a piece won&#039;t affect a person capable of deeper feelings and more mature and educated. However, a Mozart tune, played by skillful players, reaches down much, much deeper to effect truer emotions. It&#039;s harder to carry off, just as good literature is harder to carry off. I wish I had space here to fully explain this, but just don&#039;t. You&#039;re right that movies/TV often influence this kind of story, but that doesn&#039;t make it a good model. Not going to make a value judgement here as to which is best--although it&#039;s pretty clear which I favor! There&#039;s a reason movies are lesser vehicles than books--mostly because of the demographic movies cater to, which is young, teenaged boys, simply because they&#039;re they only measurable group which will attend a movie more than once. Looking back at your question, I may have misunderstood--were you speaking of the same work in both book and film form? If so, use the same movie, T&#038;L--it&#039;s very clear who the protagonist and the antagonist are in this, just as it would be in the book version had there been one. (Sorry, but I can&#039;t bring myself to use terms like hero and villain!) I&#039;d keep in mind who the intended audience is for 85% of commercial movies and determine if that&#039;s where I&#039;d want to use up my time creating for. Fair? I wish I had more space to go into this with the detail it deserves!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96163">jmcgarryxx</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Jmcgarryxx! That's the view of a narrow type of story and one of usually slight substance. The "daydream" kind of story. There are two kinds of stories--the daydream and the nightdream. (Jungian). The daydream story is a relatively shallow kind of storytelling. Basic form is "young man goes to beach to see girl, bullies show up and depant him and bury him in sand, humiliating him in front of fair maiden. Goes back home, pumps iron, learns martial art, comes back and whips bullies." It's a trite kind of story and usually appears in soon-forgotten tales. (Not always, but usually) It works at times in film for a lot of reasons, mostly having to do with the production values--characters thirty-feet tall, FX effects, music, etc. The daydream (not nightmare, although it can be) story, is one that goes much, much deeper. Not enough room to fully describe it here, but a much more complex kind of tale that delves much, much deeper into the psychology of humans and doesn't depend upon cheap emotions to "carry the day." It depends on reaching real emotion in the reader and not surface ones. A good analogy is music. Any musician knows that they can play some syrupy tune like "Wind Beneath Her Feet" (or whatever it's called) at a wedding, and tears will flow. Emotion, cheaply-wrought and easily won. However, such a piece won't affect a person capable of deeper feelings and more mature and educated. However, a Mozart tune, played by skillful players, reaches down much, much deeper to effect truer emotions. It's harder to carry off, just as good literature is harder to carry off. I wish I had space here to fully explain this, but just don't. You're right that movies/TV often influence this kind of story, but that doesn't make it a good model. Not going to make a value judgement here as to which is best--although it's pretty clear which I favor! There's a reason movies are lesser vehicles than books--mostly because of the demographic movies cater to, which is young, teenaged boys, simply because they're they only measurable group which will attend a movie more than once. Looking back at your question, I may have misunderstood--were you speaking of the same work in both book and film form? If so, use the same movie, T&amp;L--it's very clear who the protagonist and the antagonist are in this, just as it would be in the book version had there been one. (Sorry, but I can't bring myself to use terms like hero and villain!) I'd keep in mind who the intended audience is for 85% of commercial movies and determine if that's where I'd want to use up my time creating for. Fair? I wish I had more space to go into this with the detail it deserves!</p>
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		<title>
		By: jmcgarryxx		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96163</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jmcgarryxx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 21:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A great way to look at characters. However, readers are still stuck in the hero/villain paradigm, probably from movies and TV. If you compare the book version to the movie or TV version, the movie version tries to make it clearer who is the hero and who is the villain. My issue is how to get around that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great way to look at characters. However, readers are still stuck in the hero/villain paradigm, probably from movies and TV. If you compare the book version to the movie or TV version, the movie version tries to make it clearer who is the hero and who is the villain. My issue is how to get around that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Les Edgerton		</title>
		<link>https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Les Edgerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://writersinthestormblog.com/?p=21523#comment-96160</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96157&quot;&gt;Helen Mongillo&lt;/a&gt;.

You just made my day, Helen! I&#039;m just plain stoked that this bit of info helps your novel!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://writersinthestormblog.com/2015/10/true-roles-of-protagonists-and-antagonists/#comment-96157">Helen Mongillo</a>.</p>
<p>You just made my day, Helen! I'm just plain stoked that this bit of info helps your novel!</p>
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