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Using Third Person vs First Person Novel Narratives

Les Edgerton

Hi folks,

A source of discussion that always comes up at the beginning of my classes is whether the writer should use first- or third-person. The short answer I usually give, is: “Whatever the material calls for.”

Since that doesn’t adequately address the question, I go on to amplify the answer, and that’s what I’ll do here as well.

First, I ask the student who wants to employ first-person why they chose that stance. Almost without exception, they’ll state, “Well, it’s just more intimate. Third person is too formal for the character I want to create for the story.”

That’s when I proceed to knock holes in that theory.

Before I do that, here are a few things I’ve observed. More beginning writers than established writers tend to write in first-person. Far more people who’ve been published are aware that third person is considered the “professional” POV and that first-person is often considered the “amateur” POV.

Now, before everybody starts yelling at me that there are tons of excellent books out there written in first-person, let me assure you I’m well aware of that. If I may, I’d like to refer you back to my short answer: “Whatever the material calls for.” There are often times when the material calls for first person. However… not as often as is sometimes realized.

Let me explain.

The chief reason many agents and editors prefer third person and call it the “professional” POV, is that the overwhelming percentage of successful books and bestsellers are written in third person. This isn’t an accident. There are reasons this is the case.

Actually, the overwhelming majority of manuscripts that arrive in a publisher’s or agent’s office are written in first-person. If that’s so (and it is), then why would more third-person efforts become published? Well, because many more manuscripts are submitted by beginners than by pros. By the time one goes from the beginner’s group to the published group, the numbers in the second group have dramatically diminished. That means the second group is going to be predominantly writing in third person. Fewer people by far in that group, but a much higher percentage of publishable manuscripts. Most in third person…

This simply goes back to my observation above that more beginning writers employ first-person than do seasoned pros. Editors and agents have also noted this fact. Overwhelmingly so do beginners prefer to write in first- rather than third-person.

That means that when a gatekeeper encounters a first-person manuscript, it goes without saying that a little red light goes on (from his/her past experiences) that chances are pretty good this mss came from a… less seasoned writer. And, it’s just a fact of life and the business of writing that the newer the writer, the less likely the mss will be of publishable quality.

Does that mean when your first-person opus lands on an editor’s or agent’s desk it is doomed from the start? Of course not. But, a writer should be aware that there’s a bit of a bias already in place against first-person.

If it’s a book that should have been written in first rather than third, and it’s written well and is of publishable quality, no problem. Any good editor or agent will be able to tell within a couple of pages if it’s written well or not, no matter what POV stance the author has elected.

Why do agents and editors feel this way about first-person? This gets to the heart of the matter. The reason many hold first-person in a negative light is that anyone who’s read many manuscripts knows that a great many first-person novels are thinly-disguised autobiographies, usually espousing some recently-learned political or social philosophy, or, if not that, their imitation of some current (or just-over) line of bestsellers. At present, this includes vampire or zombie opuses, or invincible characters who look suspiciously like Jack Reacher but have different names.

Another reason many choose a first-person narrator is that it seems easier to newer writers. Many (many!) first novels are written with characters saying and thinking things the writer him- or herself thinks in their own minds. Novels that are fiction in name only; primarily many are just vehicles to assign the writer’s own thoughts to in a loosely-degenerative plot.

Those are all secondary reasons why some writers choose first-person. Overwhelmingly, however, the biggest single reason lots of writers choose first is that they feel it’s a more intimate POV. It seems to make sense. After all, if one is writing “I” from their character’s POV, one can’t get much closer to the character, can they?

You saw this coming, didn’t you!

Of course there’s a way to achieve the same intimacy with third person as there is with first. And, it’s easy.

Simply by employing a close third person, not a formal third. A narrative that uses a close third achieves exactly the same intimacy with the reader as a first person does. The good news is that by using a close third person you get all the positives and none of the negatives of first person.

The bad news is… well, there isn’t any bad news. It’s a win-win situation.

And, how does one achieve this magical close third that feels like first person with none of the baggage of first? 

Again, it’s easy. You simply substitute personal pronouns for the character’s name. That’s it. Sounds too good to be true, doesn’t it?

Let’s take a look. Examples are the best way to prove a point.

I’ll give you a section of narrative in which a formal third is used. Then, I’ll give the same passage in first person. And, finally, I’ll follow that with the same narrative, only this time with personal pronouns in a close third person. I feel confident that as soon as you read them you’ll see and feel the difference.

***

From my short story, “My Idea of a Nice Thing” first published in Breeze and included in my short story collection, “Monday’s Meal.” (The two people are at an A.A. meeting and it’s about a third through the story.)

First, the passage in a formal third person:

            “My idea of a nice thing,” he said, “would be a world where you could get drunk and it wouldn’t harm you, physically, anyway.”

            Raye turned and offered her hand. “My name is Raye.”

            “Hi, Raye. Emory. Like the board.”

            Raye didn’t quite get it and first and then she did and smiled.

            “I liked what you said that time, about sorting yourself out.”

            Again, Raye didn’t get it at first, and then she realized he must have been at the meeting she’d first gotten up and spoken at.

            “Well, yeah,” Raye said, “It’s kind of like that, but boy did I get in trouble saying that!”

            “From Jim, right?” ‘You shouldn’t talk about the joys of drink at a meeting or a place where that’s all the people think about?’ That Jim?” He grinned, and Raye saw he had great teeth, even and white, and what was nice was the way he smiled. Like he was unaware of how great his teeth really were, that he was smiling just because he was happy or had thought of something funny. “There’s been talk of replacing ol’ Jim. He gets his meetings mixed up, thinks this is Parents Without Partners.”

            There must have been something in Raye’s face that made him realize he’d said the wrong thing.

            “Look, I’m sorry. Let’s get out of here,” he said. “Go get a drink.”

            They use the same pickup lines here that they do in bars, Raye thought.

            “I don’t mean a drink with liquor in it,” he said. “I mean a Coke or something, but in a bar. This place feels like a hospital. It’s depressing.”

            “This is a hospital… Emory,” Raye added his name haltingly, knowing that once she’d said it she was going to leave with him.

That’s a formal third. Now, read the same passage as first person.

            “My idea of a nice thing,” he said, “would be a world where you could get drunk and it wouldn’t harm you, physically, anyway.”

            “Raye,” I said, turning and offering my hand. “My name is Raye.”

            “Hi, Raye. Emory. Like the board.”

            I didn’t quite get it at first and then I did and smiled.

            “I liked what you said that time, about sorting yourself out.”

            Again, I didn’t get it at first, and then I realized he must have been at the meeting I’d first gotten up and spoken at.

            “Well, yeah,” I said, “It’s kind of like that, but boy did I get in trouble saying that!”

            “From Jim, right?” ‘You shouldn’t talk about the joys of drink at a meeting or a place where that’s all the people think about?’ That Jim?” He grinned, and I saw he had great teeth, even and white, and what was nice was the way he smiled. Like he was unaware of how great his teeth really were, that he was smiling just because he was happy or had thought of something funny. “There’s been talk of replacing ol’ Jim. He gets his meetings mixed up, thinks this is Parents Without Partners.”

            There must have been something in my face that made him realize he’d said the wrong thing.

            “Look, I’m sorry. Let’s get out of here,” he said. “Go get a drink.”

            They use the same pickup lines here that they do in bars, I thought.

            “I don’t mean a drink with liquor in it,” he said. “I mean a Coke or something, but in a bar. This place feels like a hospital. It’s depressing.”

            “This is a hospital… Emory,” I added his name haltingly, knowing that once I’d said it I was going to leave with him.

And, finally, the same passage as a close third. See if you don’t agree it feels exactly like first person.

            “My idea of a nice thing,” he said, “would be a world where you could get drunk and it wouldn’t harm you, physically, anyway.”

            “Raye,” she said, turning and offering her hand. “My name is Raye.”

            “Hi, Raye. Emory. Like the board.”

            She didn’t quite get it and first and then she did and smiled.

            “I liked what you said that time, about sorting yourself out.”

            Again, she didn’t get it at first, and then she realized he must have been at the meeting she’d first gotten up and spoken at.

            “Well, yeah,” she said, “It’s kind of like that, but boy did I get in trouble saying that!”

            “From Jim, right?” ‘You shouldn’t talk about the joys of drink at a meeting or a place where that’s all the people think about?’ That Jim?” He grinned, and she saw he had great teeth, even and white, and what was nice was the way he smiled. Like he was unaware of how great his teeth really were, that he was smiling just because he was happy or had thought of something funny. “There’s been talk of replacing ol’ Jim. He gets his meetings mixed up, thinks this is Parents Without Partners.”

            There must have been something in her face that made him realize he’d said the wrong thing.

            “Look, I’m sorry. Let’s get out of here,” he said. “Go get a drink.”

            They use the same pickup lines here that they do in bars, she thought.

            “I don’t mean a drink with liquor in it,” he said. “I mean a Coke or something, but in a bar. This place feels like a hospital. It’s depressing.”

            “This is a hospital… Emory,” she added his name haltingly, knowing that once she’d said it she was going to leave with him.

***

See how by simply replacing the POV character’s name with personal pronouns instantly transforms it into a read that feels exactly like first person. The same level of intimacy? Kinda neat, isn’t it!

How do you know when the “material calls for first or third person?”

There’s a handy-dandy litmus test. If you can substitute personal pronouns for all the “I’s” in the narrative and it doesn’t affect the story… then it should be in third. If it does affect the story and in a negative way, then it should be in first. Most of the time I think you’ll find that it works better in third person. A close third person.

Personally, I often write in first person. Mostly for short stories. For novels, occasionally I’ll use first person, but mostly I opt for third. A close third.

Try it yourself. Take a passage written in a formal third (where the POV character’s name is used often) and rewrite it, taking out all the instances where the name is used and substitute personal pronouns for the POV character’s name. (This is once the character’s name is on the page and the reader knows who the “he” or “she” is.) Then, recast it in first person and compare the close third version with the first person version and see if you don’t agree they feel pretty much the same.

Or, take a previously-written passage in first person and substitute personal pronouns for the I’s. If you don’t feel any or very much difference, guess what? It might be a better POV to use.

Hope this helps!

Blue skies,
Les

*  *  *  *  *  *

About Les

Les Edgerton

Les Edgerton is an ex-con, matriculating at Pendleton Reformatory in the sixties for burglary. He was an outlaw for many years and was involved in shootouts, knifings, robberies, high-speed car chases, drugs, was a pimp, worked for an escort service, starred in porn movies, was a gambler, served four years in the Navy, and had other misadventures. He’s since taken a vow of poverty (became a writer) with 18 books in print, including Finding Your Voice and HOOKED.

Three of his novels have been sold to German publisher, Pulpmaster for the German language rights. His memoir, Adrenaline Junkie is currently being marketed. Work of his has been nominated for or won: the Pushcart Prize, O. Henry Award, Edgar Allan Poe Award (short story category), Derringer Award, PEN/Faulkner Award, Jesse Jones Book Award, Spinetingler Magazine Award for Best Novel (Legends category), and the Violet Crown Book Award, among others.

Les holds a B.A. from I.U. and the MFA in Writing from Vermont College. He was the writer-in-residence for three years at the University of Toledo, for one year at Trine University, and taught writing classes for UCLA, St. Francis University, Phoenix College, Writer’s Digest,  Vermont College, the New York Writer’s Workshop and other places. He currently teaches a private novel-writing class online.

He can be found at www.lesedgertononwriting.blogspot.com/.

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Top Tips for Writing with Another Author

Heather Webb

I’ve been talking a lot about collaborating on a novel and also in anthologies these days. (I co-wrote my latest book with Hazel Gaynor). I wasn’t prepared for how many people would be fascinated by what it would be like to work on a book with someone else so I thought I’d share that with you all today.

 Writing is a solitary and very personal process. Alone at our writing desks, we struggle with word count and plot, accompanied only by our self-doubt and determination. It’s no wonder then, that the prospect of sharing some of that isolation with another writer is so appealing. Yet, a collaborative novel is a relatively rare, and slightly mythical concept. How do individual writers, with unique styles and voices, come together to produce a cohesive novel with seamless prose? Are the challenges worth the rewards, and what - if anything -  can we learn from working so closely with another writer? Let’s take at look at how this might work.

TIPS FOR COLLABORATIVE SUCCESS:

Choose your writing partner wisely. Your best friend is not necessarily your best writing partner—just like they often don’t make the best roommate. Besties can become lazy in their communication because they assume you know what’s going on in their lives, or they assume you know what they’re thinking, how they feel, etc. To make this work, you need a satisfying working relationship in which you can trust each other and drive a hard business line if necessary.

Have a clear vision for the book. Make sure you are on the same page from the start to avoid in-fighting or any sticky issues down the road. In other words, you need to both agree on the shaping of your main character as well as the revolution of the story, etc.

Agree on a writing schedule you can both commit to. It’s incredibly important to set a schedule, dividing the work time in a way that makes sense. Each person must commit to this schedule--treat it like a business appointment--or the book won’t come together in a timely fashion. (And you might also tick off your partner for not following through on your end of the bargain.)

Leave egos at the door. Co-writing isn’t about who is right or wrong, or who is the best writer. You’re combining your strengths and bringing out the best in each other, at least this is the goal. Make the right choices for the story, not which makes you feel like “the best”.

Be flexible.  This may be the most important aspect of co-writing. You’ll learn a lot about your co-authors’ kids, pets, and family life! Expect the unexpected. Being a control freak while working with another person will cause a lot of unnecessary friction. Above all, be open to suggestion.

Meet/chat regularly.  Continual communication is vital. Never assume you know what the other is thinking, or feeling. Again, set a schedule in which you touch base if not daily, weekly.

Commit. If it is your day to work on the book, work on the book. When it comes to promotion, if you say you’ll write an article, write an article. If you don’t feel like you can commit solidly to this plan, don’t. And maybe you should consider working only on your solo projects.

Have fun. This is a unique experience. Enjoy it! If you aren’t having a good time, why bother doing all the work involved in co-writing?

Celebrate milestones. This is the best part! When drafts are finished, covers are revealed, and foreign sales come in, toast your accomplishments! All that hard work should be rewarded.

 

Have you ever worked on a collaborative effort? What were the pitfalls? The strengths? Would you try it again—or does it not appeal to you at all?

*  *  *  *  *  *

About the authors:

Left to right: Hazel and Heather

Heather Webb is the international bestselling author of historical novels Becoming Josephine, Rodin's Lover, and Last Christmas in Paris, which have been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, France Magazine and more, as well as received national starred reviews. In 2015, Rodin's Lover was selected as a Goodreads Top Pick. To date, Heather's novels have sold in multiple countries worldwide. She is also a professional freelance editor, foodie, and travel fiend. She lives in New England with her family and one feisty rabbit.

Hazel Gaynor is the New York Times bestselling author of The Girl Who Came Home, A Memory of Violets, The Girl from the Savoy, and her latest release, The Cottingley Secret. She is also the recipient of the 2015 RNA Historical Novel of the Year award. Hazel lives in Ireland with her husband and children.

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3 Writing "Rules" I Break

Author W. Somerset Maugham famously said, "There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

Maybe there aren't any rules per se, but there are suggestions given often enough that they almost seem like rules for writers. Yet three of those "rules" I regularly break.

"Just vomit the words on the page."

Many successful authors suggest you write as quickly as possible and with wild abandon. Theories abound that you can tap into that deeper, truer subconscious when you spill your story onto the page like a rushing waterfall.

I'm sure this method works for many, and I encourage writers to give it a shot. However, I've discovered my own "muse" cannot be trusted with such carte blanche. She turns out a lot of horrible drivel that way.

I don't like having to throw out 20,000 bad words I wrote in a hurry when I could slow down and make sure what I'm putting down is the best I can do. I simply don't write well at a breakneck speed, so instead I write at the more measured pace that works for me.

"Turn off your internal editor."

In the same vein is this idea that you should never edit as you go. Rather, you must shut off the pesky internal editor that wants you to fix errors right now.

I agree you shouldn't be editing with a fine-tooth comb pages you may well toss into the dumpster — that's a waste of good writing time. However, I edit some while writing a draft.

1. I start each day going back through the last scene I wrote and tweaking as I go. That gets my brain back into the story but also quiets the little voice in my head that has been wondering since yesterday if "plucked" would work better than "yanked" in that last scene.

2. When I realize I have a plot or character problem/inconsistency, I go back and fix it where it occurs. Some people simply write a note in the margin or asterisk where they need to fix the plot hole or keep a running list of issues to address later. However, my brain goes too far down that wrong road if I don't go back and fix the problem as soon as I realize it's there.

Personally, I like my internal editor. She isn't too bossy, and she gives some helpful advice. But hey, that's just me.

"If you're blocked on a scene, just writing something, anything...just write!"

Writers write and claiming writer's block for days or weeks while you piddle and ponder is certainly no way to finish novels.

That said, when I really hit a wall, I need to step away from the laptop and do something non-writing related. Most of the time, my brain continues working through the problem in the background. Then I suddenly realize what the problem was and how to fix it — like right in the middle of cleaning a toilet or re-organizing my closet.

Would I have figured it out if I'd continued plowing through the scene, trying this or that? Or even jotting down questions and answering them? I doubt it.

I resolve certain plot or character problems better when I'm nowhere near my novel — while walking the neighborhood or taking a shower or petting the cat or even doing laundry. So for me, no more plugging through a scene if it isn't working. It's better for me to take a day off and work out the kinks than keep writing.

Those are three writing "rules" I regularly ignore. Because I've learned that my process varies from these tips that do work for others. And I have to trust my own process.

What about you? What writing "rules" do you regularly break, because you've discovered something else works better for you?

About Julie

Julie Glover writes cozy mysteries and young adult fiction. Her YA contemporary novel, SHARING HUNTER, finaled in the 2015 RWA® Golden Heart®. When not writing, she collects boots, practices rampant sarcasm, and advocates for good grammar and the addition of the interrobang as a much-needed punctuation mark.

Julie is represented by Louise Fury of The Bent Agency. You can visit her website here and also follow her on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

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